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Robbie  



Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 32
Location: Buffalo Grove, IL

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:43 pm    Post subject: IL Digis Reply with quote

Hi,

Was forgetting to check here for new posts and see that a lot is happening here! Good to see this here..

I was getting the impression that IL, or SSn-N here in the NE corner of the state was not a big issue, that and the fact that since running the Aloha program in UI-View was consistantly giving me a circle of 120 miles plus, I had not thought about it much..

In talking to George, w9gwp tonight, I remembered this forum. In reading all the posts for the last couple of months, I see the talk of meetings, which I would like to attend if so. I would guess one does not need to be a sysop to attend, Smile

I do have a comment about the SSn-N and since I already mentioned it to George, I will here also. First I am not against the SSn-N, but how would you handle the need for a station with reasons to be seen in the Tri-State area? Weather stations and beacons concerning wx comes to mind.

I would suspect those that want this would still use the WIDE2-2, correct?

Robbie

Signed
Robbie, wa9inf
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KC6VVT  



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 37
Location: IL LaSalle Co Tonica

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:43 am    Post subject: Digipath in tri-state area Reply with quote

Hi Robbie WA9INF,

Certainly Wide2-2 is still a valid APRS digipath for some time to come.

Your APRS station using this digipath will be seen in the tri-state area (IL-IN-WI), as long as there are not too many WIDE stations in your paths between you and the state lines. And hopefully that is the problem that a digipath of SSn-N may help solve, as it offers an alternate path now to try combintations to change the route of your packets.

However, the Wide paths are often abused and may soon end unless stations use them sparingly.

Why would you want to send your APRS packets across a tri-state area is the question that I have. Perhaps it is because you have a WX station, and feel it is important to have that far a range.

Actually, you should probably only send WX reports as far as your local NWS WFO which would be LOT in Romeoville, IL. Next would be a gateway to the Internet. Finally, I hope as far as my station in North Central IL, of course, as I use and enjoy the WX reporting, and do query WX station on APRS.

Keep up the fine business!

Pat KC6VVT

Signed
Pat Ryan KC6VVT
ARRL Illinois Assistant Section Emergency Coordinator
ASEC/IL ARRL
P. O. Box 24 e-mail: kc6vvt@arrl.net
Tonica, IL 61370-0024
Monitor 146.52/446.00 FM/local repeaters
APRS KC6VVT-14 on 144.390 pl 100.3
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Robbie  



Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 32
Location: Buffalo Grove, IL

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pat,

First, a WIDE2-2, as in my path, is well within the suggested and recommended path.

Secondly, I am not trying to send my packets "across the tri-state area", which sounds like you inferred the three state area, Smile

WIDE2-2 will not extend me beyond the Aloha Circle which seems to be the measureing tool of late, Smile

I find myself clicking on every weather station in and beyond our Tri-State area for comparisons.

I am not against SSn-N, it's just I don't think any two hop path is a problem and it should not be restricted to a state line that is 25 miles in one direction, 75 miles the other direction..

Pat, I have been using aprs for 8 years now, and followed the aprssig and also the UI-View sig since the 16 bit came out, Smile I am sure things will change a lot more, and I just hope the education can be figured out instead of hacking/restrictions, or whatever we end up calling it!

Robbie

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Robbie, wa9inf
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KA9FLX  



Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 13
Location: Palos Hills, IL

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:34 pm    Post subject: What is the right Path settings for the Area? Reply with quote

Question

Hello! I'm new to APRS but not to packet (it has been a while). I am somehat confused regarding what paths are correct for the NE Illinois/NW Indiana area.

I read all the stuff about the new WIDEn-n stuff, but have also seen SSn-n as well, with some digi sites showing both.

I have been using WIDE1-1, WIDE2-2 in both my fixed station and Tiny TrakIII. I use it at the fixed because my radio is a 1W HT.

In any event, while both stations appear on fundu.com (semi irregular), which I take as being a sign that something is hearing them, I am frustrated that I cannot seem to get any responses back from other stations.

I am using UIView32 at the home station, and I am not sure if that is the problem and.or perhaps my overall configuration. the Tiny Trak has no real "ears"

I can see stations as far away as 350+ miles, but I cannot seem to get a response even from stations that do/should not require a digi.

It also seems that there is no "standard"/consensus for the digi paths in that some still are using RELAY, others the WIDEn-n and still others the SSn-n.

Am I doing something wrong here, or what?

I am not so concerned with how far I can get, as being able to reliably communicate around the NE Illinois and NW Indiana area.

Also, who is the keeper of the IP assignments for this area, and what is the benefits and detractors of using IP on APRS?

Any help would be Welcome!

Thanks & 73,
Bob - KA9FLX
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ka9scf  



Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Lombard

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:29 pm    Post subject: ILn-N support only IL2-2 max? Reply with quote

Hi All,

There's a SIG discussion about how SSn-N isn't supposed to have the hop limit restriction like WIDEn-N does. I noticed strange behavior when I used IL3-3 in the area here.

Also, not all the digis are agreement on WIDEn-N too. 1 is W2 and the others W3. This behaves wierd too.

Let me know what the SSn-N limits are so I can set KA9SCF-15 accordingly.

73 de Pat --- KA9SCF.
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KK9H  



Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 40
Location: Northfield, IL

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pat,

I have not seen the discussion on SIG discussion on SSn-N, but I the way the "New Paradigm" is implemented, there are no hop limits on a KPC-3+ TNC. Our ILn-N is programmed by entering UIFLOOD IL,30,ID on a KPC-3+ TNC with the 8.3 firmware. This does not limit the number of IL path hops.

The reason that the NS9RC digi is set for a W2 maximum is because it is within range of both N9IJ-10 and WB9WOZ-15, as well as numerous I-Gate stations. It has no need to propagate W3 or greater paths. However, any station with a simple WIDE2-2 path or a mobile with WIDE1-1 in its path will be digipeated.

73, Don KK9H
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ka9scf  



Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Lombard

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:38 pm    Post subject: NS9RC snipping WIDE2-2 when not 1st hop. Reply with quote

KU9Z>TR0Q5T,NS9RC*,WIDE2-2:'sJHl uk/]"6"}
KU9Z>TR0Q5T,AB9FX-2*,WIDE2-2:'sJHl uk/]"6"}
KU9Z>TR0Q5T,AB9FX-2,NS9RC*:'sJHl uk/]"6"}

I've noticed this too when I come from the 9600 onto 144.39 with a pair of digis already used, I get snipped the same way. I thought the 2nd time the packet wouldn't have been repeated in the 1st place in this instance.

KA9SCF>TQUS8Y,KA9SCF-10*,KA9SCF-15,WIDE2-2:'tXfl [/>
KA9SCF>TQUS8Y,KA9SCF-10,KA9SCF-15*,WIDE2-2:'tXfl [/>
KA9SCF>TQUS8Y,KA9SCF-10,KA9SCF-15,NS9RC*:'tXfl [/>
KA9SCF>TQUS8Y,KA9SCF-10,KA9SCF-15,WB9WOZ-15*,WIDE2-1:'tXfl [/>

Just an interesting oddity.

73 de Pat --- KA9SCF
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KK9H  



Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 40
Location: Northfield, IL

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: NS9RC snipping Reply with quote

Slight programming error. It has been corrected.

73, KK9H
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KC6VVT  



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 37
Location: IL LaSalle Co Tonica

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:38 pm    Post subject: Digipeater SSn-N Explanation Reply with quote

Re: ILn-N is programmed by entering UIFLOOD IL,30,ID on a KPC-3+ TNC with the 8.3 firmware. This does not limit the number of IL path hops.

----------
UIFlood is a command (a setting) in Kantronics TNCs (and some software), used for digipeating.

Back in the old days of APRS, the high digipeaters would set their TNC's UIFlood to WIDE and that would digipeat the WIDEn-N paths like WIDE2-2.

Those digipeaters would use a "N overlay" on their digi symbol on the APRS map. But those old "N overlay" digis are too old and obsolete now, not helping until their settings are brought up to date.

Nowadays, that WIDEn-N digipeating is done by the UITrace setting in the digi's TNC (not the UIFlood setting).

Using UITrace also causes the digi's callsign to be added into the path history, so you can see the callsigns of all the digipeaters which did their job.

This better new system also leaves the UIFlood command available to digipeat a LAN alias, like our State abbreviation of IL, in those high digipeaters. This is in addition to WIDE2-2 but keeps these IL addressed packets within our own state when needed.

In Illinois, recommend that UIFlood be now set to IL2-2 in the better wide area digipeaters, so users can set ILn-N digipaths like IL2-2.

This way, a user setting a path of ILn-N like IL2-2 will only be digipeated by those higher and better wide area digipeaters WITHIN THE STATE OF ILLINOIS for just two hops.

These digipeaters will have a "S overlay" on their symbol on the APRS map. The "S" shows that digi can use those SSn-N "State" abbreviations aliases (like IL2-2 or WI2-2 or IN2-2) as well as WIDE2-2 or WIDE2-1 or WIDE1-1.

Downstate, where digipeaters may be too far, modern "fill-in" or "event" digis do not use UIFlood (nor UITrace). They may set their alias (MYALIAS) to only digipeat WIDE1-1 and then would have a "1 overlay" on their symbol on the APRS map. Again, they are set to only digipeat WIDE1-1 paths to replace "RELAY". They may be also set to likewise temporarily digipeat IL1-1 for the SSn-N paths the Emergency only to link to IL2-2 or WI2-2 or IN2-2.

Today's helpful APRS digipeaters are only the "S overlay" digis and "1 overlay" digis. North American stations should NOT allow or enable continued use of RELAY or WIDE or TRACE or TRACEn-N aliases.

I hope we can update the settings in the rest of our Illinois section's old obsolete digis in Illinois before the weather turns cold and icy, making digipeater access less pleasant. And we would be better prepared for the emergency within our state, and lessen irrevalent packets for the emergency.

With apologies to Cap KE6AFE for plagerizing his great explanation to another group.

Signed
Pat Ryan KC6VVT
ARRL Illinois Assistant Section Emergency Coordinator
ASEC/IL ARRL
P. O. Box 24 e-mail: kc6vvt@arrl.net
Tonica, IL 61370-0024
Monitor 146.52/446.00 FM/local repeaters
APRS KC6VVT-14 on 144.390 pl 100.3
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W9GWP  



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

<snip>
Downstate, where digipeaters may be too far, modern "fill-in" or "event" digis do not use UIFlood (nor UITrace). They may set their alias (MYALIAS) to only digipeat WIDE1-1 and then would have a "1 overlay" on their symbol on the APRS map.
<snip>
Pat Ryan KC6VVT

Pat,

The use of the MYA setting in a TNC should only be used in the extreme condition that your TNC doesn't have the UID setting.
UID WIDE1-1 should be the first choice for fill in digi's with TNC's that have the UID setting. MYA should be disabled. Using MYA in UID capable TNC's is where sloppy settings begin. Sad
UID allows callsign subsitution where MYA doesn't. As a network in the "boonies" begins to grow, it propagates the use of MYA instead of UID for fill in digi's.

This of course, as Dennis Millers says " this is one man's opinion, I could be wrong" Wink

73,
George W9GWP
Lake County Digital Group, KC9GAX
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KK9H  



Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 40
Location: Northfield, IL

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:04 pm    Post subject: Using UID for WIDE1-1 instead of MYA Reply with quote

You are absolutely right George.

Don KK9H
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KK9H  



Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 40
Location: Northfield, IL

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:34 am    Post subject: NS9RC throttled back to W1 Reply with quote

After noticing NS9RC loading the channel with 4-5 packets per minute and essentially duplicating what WB9WOZ-15 and N9IJ-10 were hearing, I have throttled it back to a W1 "fill in" type of digi. NS9RC has excellent ears and will frequently respond to packets from Wisconsin, Michigan and Indiana. Bringing in stuff from those areas is of no value to our local network. I feel NS9RC can better serve our APRS network by focusing on digipeating mobiles located in the area between WB9WOZ-15, K9MOT and N9IJ-10. It's ability to process ILn-N packets as an "S" type digi remains unchanged.

Comments welcome.

73 de KK9H
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ka9scf  



Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Lombard

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:50 pm    Post subject: NS9RC still a participant Reply with quote

Hi Don,

Looks like NS9RC is processing W2 and up:

# 1151346592 Mon Jun 26 13:29:52 CDT 2006
N9NLC-9>TQTU5W,W9AZ-15,WIDE1*,WIDE2-2:`sJol>tj/]"5y}
# 1151346594 Mon Jun 26 13:29:54 CDT 2006
N9NLC-9>TQTU5W,W9AZ-15,WIDE1,WB9WOZ-15*,WIDE2-1:`sJol>tj/]"5y}
# 1151346594 Mon Jun 26 13:29:54 CDT 2006
N9NLC-9>TQTU5W,W9AZ-15,WIDE1,WB9WOZ-15,NS9RC,WIDE2*:`sJol>tj/]"5y}
|
# 1151346610 Mon Jun 26 13:30:10 CDT 2006
KB8VEE-6>APRS,N8TJG-10*,WIDE3-2:!4317.88NN08505.07W#PHG6460 Stanton Digi W,T,R,WX,MI
# 1151346612 Mon Jun 26 13:30:12 CDT 2006
KB8VEE-6>APRS,N8TJG-10,K8BRC,NS9RC,WIDE3*:!4317.88NN08505.07W#PHG6460 Stanton Digi W,T,R,WX,MI
|
# 1151346646 Mon Jun 26 13:30:46 CDT 2006
KB9ZEY-2>APU25J,N9MXQ-15,WA9CJN-15,KA9QPN-15*,WIDE5-2:=4236.02N/08842.28W-Nick in Darien, Wi. {UIV32N}
# 1151346647 Mon Jun 26 13:30:47 CDT 2006
K9VI-15>APRS,K9MOT,WB9WOZ-15*,WIDE3-2:MARC / K9VI Goin' to Dayton!
# 1151346647 Mon Jun 26 13:30:47 CDT 2006
KB9ZEY-2>APU25J,N9MXQ-15,WA9CJN-15,KA9QPN-15,WB9WOZ-15*,WIDE5-1:=4236.02N/08842.28W-Nick in Darien, Wi. {UIV32N}
# 1151346648 Mon Jun 26 13:30:48 CDT 2006
K9VI-15>APRS,K9MOT,WB9WOZ-15,NS9RC*,WIDE3-1:MARC / K9VI Goin' to Dayton!
# 1151346649 Mon Jun 26 13:30:49 CDT 2006
KB9ZEY-2>APU25J,N9MXQ-15,WA9CJN-15,KA9QPN-15,WB9WOZ-15,NS9RC,WIDE5*:=4236.02N/08842.28W-Nick in Darien, Wi. {UIV32N}

Looks to me that the configuration reverted.

73 de Pat --- KA9SCF.
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KK9H  



Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 40
Location: Northfield, IL

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Just experimenting Reply with quote

Hi Pat,

Yes, I was playing with the UITRACE and UIDIGI commands together to see what would happen by experimenting with WB4APR's "New Paradigm" programming method on a KPC-3 with version 8.3 firmware. I see that it works on the WIDE2-2, WIDE3-3, WIDE4-4, etc. but not stuff like WIDE4-3 or WIDE3-1, etc. They go right through it which is apparently a firmware limitation when used this way. I will put it back to the way it was as soon as I receive delivery of a new TNC for my home station which should arrive tomorrow. I noticed the same thing you did, but I now also understand how Kantronics does some things that they don't document very well.

I just donated my home KPC-3+/FT-1500M combo to N9IJ so the N9IJ-10 digi can be upgraded to become a W2,ILn digi. The current digi equiment can't be programmed to perform this function because it is too old. When my stuff is installed, that digi should run a lot better.

I'll reset NS9RC as soon as I get my new TNC and 2M radio working together.

Don
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ka9scf  



Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Lombard

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:56 pm    Post subject: WB9WOZ-15 offline? Reply with quote

Hi All,

It appears that WB9WOZ-15 is off the air. In the mean time, I've turned on W2 support at KA9SCF-15 to keep basic traffic flowing through the area. There isn't any processing of W3 statements at all.

Does anyone know what happened to WB9WOZ-15?

73 de Pat --- KA9SCF.
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